NewbieNudistArt used one of my Reddit quotes in one of his toons, so I know he’s for real. This is awesome news! Looking forward to this! Been a long wait since Loxie and Zoot cartoons!!
Secondly... I thought Nudie Cutie's Redbubble shop was awesome... until I was looking around for a male one to perhaps buy a t-shirt of... and found that the only male she has... is a body shame. The theme being that women should "throw back the small ones". (meaning, that women should take opportunity to check out guys' genitalia, to throw away anyone that wasn't born with a big d***). (https://www.redbubble.com/shop/ap/158139242)
2 thumbs down. Anyone that body shames certain characteristics, doesn't at all get the movement at all.
If the artist is going to say it's just a joke, then my question is... why does she not have any "jokes" about men "throwing away" women who are too fat or whose breasts aren't big enough for them? ... and why does she have 0 images of body positivity for males?
Body positivity for both males and females. Not body positivity for one; body shaming for the other. Let's maintain basic principles and not aim to get revenge against demographics at large, the vast majority of which are not actually engaging in the behavior that you seek revenge against.
(Again, though, this post and collab is all-around is awesome. Best collab ever :) )
Interesting that you assume the artist is a woman and wants some sort of revenge. Maybe the fishing joke isn’t your thing and maybe that artist’s work doesn’t cater to your desires. That’s fine, you’re not obligated to like any particular thing. But, no artist is obligated to depict every possible thing, just in case.
Would you say the exact same thing to me... if the artist was portraying all naked men in a super empowering way; and had only 1 image of a naked woman, in which the man was saying to her "your boobs are too small for me. go away" ? And in which case, I said the exact comment (which I would), about how both sexes should be uplifted, that we shouldn't empower one, and body shame the other?
Would you respond the same to me, that "maybe the joke just isn't your thing", etc? With the implication that body shaming women in joke form is totally fine, and that I shouldn't be so quick to be negative about it?
If you would not, then you yourself may have a bias against men, as the artist seems to. (and if you would give the same response to me, then never mind, and I am glad you at least hold yourself to the same basic principles for all, even if I don't totally agree with them).
I don't care what sex the artist is. I suppose it is probably a woman; if it's not a woman, that's fine and my main point still stands. - Yes I was making a little bit of a possible interpretation, with the idea that the artist has some kind of bias against men, and wants to body shame them, in order to lift women up further (which doesn't work well for anyone). I think this is most likely the case, but I am open to being wrong.
disagree with your assessment of that joke as body shaming.
Gotta say, it reeks of male entitlement to say “making fun of men’s bodies shouldn’t be allowed” or “is by definition anti-man bias” when we live in a world that mocks women’s bodies all the time. This artist doesn’t mock women’s bodies and revels in a body type that’s usually marginalized. I appreciate that. The fishing joke is about empowering women to be picky in choosing a man. Somehow that becomes a bias against men and body shaming? It is an inversion of an old trope of fishing jokes where men “throw back” women whose bodies don’t meet their standards in some way or other. (You can see that old version on novelty post cards, stickers, tshirts, etc.) The inversion of that trope may not be the best joke ever, but it’s just not about body shaming.
I also disagree that any artist the doesn’t depict all genders or all people is somehow excluding people. Or that every artist’s job is to uplift everyone.
You neglected to respond to my previous comment, and went instead into side points.
My question was simply, if you would be responding this same way to me, if the artist had instead drawn all empowered, naked, plus-size, males... and just one female, in which the female was being told, in a funny way, "your tits are too small for me, so I'm going to throw you back."
From my perspective, this has little to do with which sex is being drawn. I would feel the same way in either case. And I am curious what your thinking is...
Would you agree that the "small tits" illustration has a body shame vibe, even if it's joking? Or would you say, as you are here... that it's simply about "empowering [men] to be picky in choosing a [woman]" and not at all biased against [women] nor at all body shaming whatsoever?
By the way: You may find this documentary insightful. It's about a man who has deep shame about his small penis, and his struggles in overcoming it: https://watchdocumentaries.com/my-penis-and-i/
Now, on your side points:
+ “making fun of men’s bodies shouldn’t be allowed” - I did not say this.
+ "This artist doesn’t mock women’s bodies and revels in a body type that’s usually marginalized." - I agree with you 100%, love the artist's work overall.
+ "I also disagree that any artist the doesn’t depict all genders or all people is somehow excluding people. Or that every artist’s job is to uplift everyone" - again, I did not make this point. I agree with you here as well. I'm not for hyper-inclusivity at all times.
“My question was simply, if you would be responding this same way to me, if the artist had instead drawn all empowered, naked, plus-size, males... and just one female, in which the female was being told, in a funny way, "your tits are too small for me, so I'm going to throw you back."”
This is not a useful comparison because, again, the joke is about inverting an old trope not the cartoon man’s body. Also, there are other men in this artist’s work, including the panel in this newsletter. I have seen many gags like the one you describe - it is the trope being inverted here. That trope is problematic because it’s part of a larger structure of sexism and misogyny. Its inversion is not.
But, If I saw an artist that drew almost only men (there are plenty of those) and depicted a woman who was the butt of a joke that inverted an old gag- maybe “send her back, I need a sugar momma” would be a good analogy - then I would likely either laugh or not. If the inversion is funny, then it’s funny, even if it’s at the expense of the sort of person who is usually the “winner” in the original trope. If the joke seemed particularly cruel, that would be a different matter. But, not seeing that the joke is the trope inversion (and not the cartoon man’s penis), means you are not the right audience for the joke, not that the joke is whatever you say it is.
Also, if I saw an artist that drew mostly men in seemingly empowering ways, I would indeed understand that maybe I’m not the intended audience and so I may not understand all that’s going on in a given joke.
And, yes, I am a cishet woman who thinks boob jokes and dick jokes have equal chance of being funny. I have no bias against men, but railing against patriarchy (and mansplaining like this) is a thing I do a lot.
My question to you is would you be requiring perfect ideological conformity and representation of exactly what you want if you thought the artist was a man?
I'm not sure why you think of my question, that "This is not a useful comparison," and you change it to something totally different about a sugar momma.
You are steeped in abstract concepts, collective guilt, and a man vs woman win-or-lose dichotomy... that you cannot see something more concrete and simple on its own... that saying to men with small penises, that women should spot them early to throw them out... is at least slight body shaming. In the same way as it would be for men to say this to women with small breasts. Even if it's not that big of a deal, which it really isn't, in either case.
I actually think the cartoon is a bit funny and silly. I don't even hate it. It is just not really on the same "body positive" page as, say, Astro Nudes, also above. Which wouldn't feature just one man, nor just one woman, and talk about how either needs to be thrown away because they have a small penis or the breasts aren't big enough, and that's that. It's just a totally different category. The former belongs at Spencer's, and it does actually have a place there :)
I'm not mansplaining. When someone makes ad hominem arguments like that, that generally means they lost the argument! So I'll take it as a compliment.
I enjoyed Diary of the Astronudes when I first saw it online and happily contributed to get a copy of his print version last year. This is a fun way to help promote the nude and naturist world. Thanks for bringing it to the viewers.
Yay! As a nudist who is also a big fan of comics, this is right up my street!
I want it all, comics and articles.
You are subscribed to it all be default! 🎉
NewbieNudistArt used one of my Reddit quotes in one of his toons, so I know he’s for real. This is awesome news! Looking forward to this! Been a long wait since Loxie and Zoot cartoons!!
Alright! It’s a dream come true! I’m a gigantic comic nerd myself. This makes me extremely excited!
Outstanding! What a great way to expand the scope of Planet Nude. Looking forward to it!
Bring it on!
Humanistic Humor !
If we cannot laugh at ourselves, what is the point of living?
I'm looking forward to this. I've read all these comics at some point. It will be fun reading the new ones. Great that they're all in one place.
We all need to laugh more!
Firstly and most importantly... this is awesome.
Secondly... I thought Nudie Cutie's Redbubble shop was awesome... until I was looking around for a male one to perhaps buy a t-shirt of... and found that the only male she has... is a body shame. The theme being that women should "throw back the small ones". (meaning, that women should take opportunity to check out guys' genitalia, to throw away anyone that wasn't born with a big d***). (https://www.redbubble.com/shop/ap/158139242)
2 thumbs down. Anyone that body shames certain characteristics, doesn't at all get the movement at all.
If the artist is going to say it's just a joke, then my question is... why does she not have any "jokes" about men "throwing away" women who are too fat or whose breasts aren't big enough for them? ... and why does she have 0 images of body positivity for males?
Body positivity for both males and females. Not body positivity for one; body shaming for the other. Let's maintain basic principles and not aim to get revenge against demographics at large, the vast majority of which are not actually engaging in the behavior that you seek revenge against.
(Again, though, this post and collab is all-around is awesome. Best collab ever :) )
Interesting that you assume the artist is a woman and wants some sort of revenge. Maybe the fishing joke isn’t your thing and maybe that artist’s work doesn’t cater to your desires. That’s fine, you’re not obligated to like any particular thing. But, no artist is obligated to depict every possible thing, just in case.
Would you say the exact same thing to me... if the artist was portraying all naked men in a super empowering way; and had only 1 image of a naked woman, in which the man was saying to her "your boobs are too small for me. go away" ? And in which case, I said the exact comment (which I would), about how both sexes should be uplifted, that we shouldn't empower one, and body shame the other?
Would you respond the same to me, that "maybe the joke just isn't your thing", etc? With the implication that body shaming women in joke form is totally fine, and that I shouldn't be so quick to be negative about it?
If you would not, then you yourself may have a bias against men, as the artist seems to. (and if you would give the same response to me, then never mind, and I am glad you at least hold yourself to the same basic principles for all, even if I don't totally agree with them).
I don't care what sex the artist is. I suppose it is probably a woman; if it's not a woman, that's fine and my main point still stands. - Yes I was making a little bit of a possible interpretation, with the idea that the artist has some kind of bias against men, and wants to body shame them, in order to lift women up further (which doesn't work well for anyone). I think this is most likely the case, but I am open to being wrong.
disagree with your assessment of that joke as body shaming.
Gotta say, it reeks of male entitlement to say “making fun of men’s bodies shouldn’t be allowed” or “is by definition anti-man bias” when we live in a world that mocks women’s bodies all the time. This artist doesn’t mock women’s bodies and revels in a body type that’s usually marginalized. I appreciate that. The fishing joke is about empowering women to be picky in choosing a man. Somehow that becomes a bias against men and body shaming? It is an inversion of an old trope of fishing jokes where men “throw back” women whose bodies don’t meet their standards in some way or other. (You can see that old version on novelty post cards, stickers, tshirts, etc.) The inversion of that trope may not be the best joke ever, but it’s just not about body shaming.
I also disagree that any artist the doesn’t depict all genders or all people is somehow excluding people. Or that every artist’s job is to uplift everyone.
You neglected to respond to my previous comment, and went instead into side points.
My question was simply, if you would be responding this same way to me, if the artist had instead drawn all empowered, naked, plus-size, males... and just one female, in which the female was being told, in a funny way, "your tits are too small for me, so I'm going to throw you back."
From my perspective, this has little to do with which sex is being drawn. I would feel the same way in either case. And I am curious what your thinking is...
Would you agree that the "small tits" illustration has a body shame vibe, even if it's joking? Or would you say, as you are here... that it's simply about "empowering [men] to be picky in choosing a [woman]" and not at all biased against [women] nor at all body shaming whatsoever?
By the way: You may find this documentary insightful. It's about a man who has deep shame about his small penis, and his struggles in overcoming it: https://watchdocumentaries.com/my-penis-and-i/
Now, on your side points:
+ “making fun of men’s bodies shouldn’t be allowed” - I did not say this.
+ "This artist doesn’t mock women’s bodies and revels in a body type that’s usually marginalized." - I agree with you 100%, love the artist's work overall.
+ "I also disagree that any artist the doesn’t depict all genders or all people is somehow excluding people. Or that every artist’s job is to uplift everyone" - again, I did not make this point. I agree with you here as well. I'm not for hyper-inclusivity at all times.
“My question was simply, if you would be responding this same way to me, if the artist had instead drawn all empowered, naked, plus-size, males... and just one female, in which the female was being told, in a funny way, "your tits are too small for me, so I'm going to throw you back."”
This is not a useful comparison because, again, the joke is about inverting an old trope not the cartoon man’s body. Also, there are other men in this artist’s work, including the panel in this newsletter. I have seen many gags like the one you describe - it is the trope being inverted here. That trope is problematic because it’s part of a larger structure of sexism and misogyny. Its inversion is not.
But, If I saw an artist that drew almost only men (there are plenty of those) and depicted a woman who was the butt of a joke that inverted an old gag- maybe “send her back, I need a sugar momma” would be a good analogy - then I would likely either laugh or not. If the inversion is funny, then it’s funny, even if it’s at the expense of the sort of person who is usually the “winner” in the original trope. If the joke seemed particularly cruel, that would be a different matter. But, not seeing that the joke is the trope inversion (and not the cartoon man’s penis), means you are not the right audience for the joke, not that the joke is whatever you say it is.
Also, if I saw an artist that drew mostly men in seemingly empowering ways, I would indeed understand that maybe I’m not the intended audience and so I may not understand all that’s going on in a given joke.
And, yes, I am a cishet woman who thinks boob jokes and dick jokes have equal chance of being funny. I have no bias against men, but railing against patriarchy (and mansplaining like this) is a thing I do a lot.
My question to you is would you be requiring perfect ideological conformity and representation of exactly what you want if you thought the artist was a man?
I'm not sure why you think of my question, that "This is not a useful comparison," and you change it to something totally different about a sugar momma.
You are steeped in abstract concepts, collective guilt, and a man vs woman win-or-lose dichotomy... that you cannot see something more concrete and simple on its own... that saying to men with small penises, that women should spot them early to throw them out... is at least slight body shaming. In the same way as it would be for men to say this to women with small breasts. Even if it's not that big of a deal, which it really isn't, in either case.
I actually think the cartoon is a bit funny and silly. I don't even hate it. It is just not really on the same "body positive" page as, say, Astro Nudes, also above. Which wouldn't feature just one man, nor just one woman, and talk about how either needs to be thrown away because they have a small penis or the breasts aren't big enough, and that's that. It's just a totally different category. The former belongs at Spencer's, and it does actually have a place there :)
I'm not mansplaining. When someone makes ad hominem arguments like that, that generally means they lost the argument! So I'll take it as a compliment.
Interesting convo. Take care!
This is terrific! I thoroughly enjoyed Loxie and Zoot. In fact kept re-reading the episodes. So continuing nude comic strips would be great!
I hope it’s real, I personally would enjoy reading the comics 😎
I enjoyed Diary of the Astronudes when I first saw it online and happily contributed to get a copy of his print version last year. This is a fun way to help promote the nude and naturist world. Thanks for bringing it to the viewers.
We’re big fans of these articles and cartoons. Keep us posted.
Jan&Gary
I love comics, especially the ones that depict nudists in a world where nudity is normalized. Inspirational!.
Hello and thanks for the nudist humor. A great new way to democratize our normal, naked & natural way of life.