I would not complain about the model type. For any artistic medium, the problem is finding the model[s]. One does not go on any street corner and inquire of passerbys whether they would be willing to pose for the artist. Realistically, the artist not only has difficulty finding the right model at the right price, but the artist’s market is a primary consideration if costs are going to be covered.
You probably couldn't get many well known athletes or dancers to do this. Even if one were nude friendly themself, anyone in the public eye would worry about the PR effect. Even in 1983, your image had monetary value. OTOH, if you've already done nude work in the public realm or had no hopes of future celebrity, you'd have nothing to lose.
I don't mind the use of extremely fit models for this. It is like a study in physical anatomy. If you want to show how the muscles work, you gotta see the muscles. If you want grace in motion, you gotta have people athletic enough to give you grace in motion.
Brett, your review helps pinpoint a fundamental issue for me about naturism and nudity in art and culture. I saw/heard the movie too, dated though it now seems, it is beautifully done and aesthetically pleasing. You write "but I can’t help but think about how, when it comes to presenting nudism or nude art to the public, there are only certain body types that are deemed acceptable: specifically those of young, physically fit, able-bodied cis men and women." Of course, all of us who embrace naturism and social nudity welcome everyone. We want everyone to feel free in their skin. To feel comfortable in their nakedness with others who are also unclothed. But consider this: the movement also has deep roots in body conditioning and physical fitness. We often cite the earliest Olympics and the nudity of their athletic competition as an ideal. Today's naturism places emphasis on health and fitness. That a film like "Nudes in Limbo" features well-toned and younger bodies is not necessarily a negative. Art is a depiction of what we see and ideals for which we strive. Consider Michelangelo's masterpiece, "David." The larger than life statue depicts an idealized fully nude young adult male with a full head of hair. Should Michelangelo have instead created a sculpture of an obese bald man? Would we have regarded it as an ideal physique? There are many artists who have sculpted such figures. People like that exist too. I am not denigrating such a physique here. Nudists come in all shapes and sizes. But when we are at the nude beach, or the nude resort, don't we all admire more the people with buff bodies? They worked for that. They sweated for that. They labored for that. They had an objective and achieved a goal. We naturally admire that. When we see nudists who are decidedly flabby and overweight we still accept them. Yes. But one can't escape thinking that had they been less over-indulgent and more disciplined that their appearance would be more to their own liking? and to that of everyone else? It is also the case that overweight people are more likely to develop serious health conditions like diabetes and heart ailments. Their doctors tell them to cut out the fatty foods and get more exercise. How many of us have friends-- people we really like-- or family members we truly love-- who we know would improve their well-being and self-esteem by losing a few pounds here and a few pounds there? I for one believe that as a society we have gone too far in the direction of body acceptance of any and all types. Let's face it, obesity is a national plague and we ought to be more proactive in encouraging fitness and proper diet. Am I wrong?
Sculptor, I appreciate your perspective, and I can't speak for Brett as the writer of the above review, but I personally believe a couple of your points may be based on misconceptions. For one, Michelangelo’s "David" is a product of Renaissance ideals, reflecting the culture’s admiration for classical beauty and human potential. Art, including naturist films, reflects the values of its time. It's worth noting that art throughout history has celebrated diverse body types. For example, the Paleolithic Venus figurines highlight fuller, voluptuous bodies, celebrating fertility and nurturing aspects of humanity (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venus_figurine). For a deeper understanding of how body ideals have evolved in art, I cannot recommend this insightful video enough: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-AKudjxdbQw.
While promoting fitness is positive, it should not overshadow the inclusive spirit of naturism, which welcomes all body types. Real naturism fosters an environment where everyone feels accepted, regardless of their physique. I would argue that calling obesity a "plague" is damaging and harmful. This language stigmatizes individuals and overlooks the complex factors contributing to body weight such as genetics, environment, economic status, etc.. Encouraging health and fitness should never come at the expense of body acceptance. Many are overwright and perfectly healthy, and wondering why art so consistently reflects idealized and unattainable body types when there are so many other body types out there is hardly an endorsement of obesity. What about older bodies, bony bodies, disabled bodies, and others that you rarely see in art?
Regarding those we know who might feel happier if they lost a few pounds—who's to say? Many people with unconventional bodies, as naturists, feel that nothing about their bodies needs to change, but rather society's reaction to their bodies needs to change. Instead of assuming our loved ones would be happier if they were different, perhaps we should adopt an approach that accepts and loves their bodies as they are. Maybe, just maybe, that acceptance would truly make them happier.
Evan, fair points, excellent questions. The main assertion you make with which I take issue is that calling obesity a "plague" is damaging and harmful. But it is a plague. The plague itself is far more harmful than calling it in plain English for what it actually is. Ignoring it, or denying it, does a disservice to the people who suffer from it. There is a huge literature on this topic. Here for example is a report in 2023 from the National Health and Nutrition Examination Survey, "more than 2 in 5 adults are obese, and nearly 1 in 5 children are obese. Furthermore, 19 states in America have obesity rates over 35 percent, increased from 16 states just last year. A decade ago, no states had obesity rates above 35 percent! Obesity is linked to a number of health ailments, including diabetes, heart disease, stroke, and a number of cancers such as breast and colorectal. If that wasn’t enough, the annual medical cost of obesity was nearly 173 billion dollars in 2019 alone" (https://www.forbes.com/sites/omerawan/2023/01/25/has-the-obesity-epidemic-gotten-out-of-hand-in-america/). Check the CDC and Journal of the American Medical Association. The evidence is thoroughly documented. Obesity is an epidemic. What is especially distressing is the percentage of children who are afflicted. We are not doing them any favors by normalizing this. This is admittedly a delicate subject. Shaming people about their body type is not the point I am making. You ask about "bony bodies, disabled bodies, and others that you rarely see in art." They are out there and we often see heroism in their stories. People have overcome terrible illnesses and disabilities caused by no fault of their own. We applaud their courage when they get back up despite the odds against them. Baldness, for example, is clearly involuntary. Many bald men try a toupée (although we've all seen many handsome men who are bald). I am making the case about those things that are voluntary. Anything over which we have control is really at issue. Smoking is unhealthy. No argument. Alcohol abuse is unhealthy. No argument. Substance abuse, including food, is unhealthy. So I am making the case here that when it comes to voluntary behavior over which people have control, healthy choices should be encouraged and unhealthy choices discouraged. You say that "encouraging health and fitness should never come at the expense of body acceptance." Really? That is precisely the point. What motivates people to go the gym and really work out? They are not accepting their out-of-shape bodies. They want greater fitness and greater health. I am of the mind that naturists should focus less on some generic goal of body acceptance and something more akin to achieving fitness. How many of us who have been to nudist resorts, clothing optional events, and nude beaches have encountered people in their 70's, 80's and even 90's who look decades younger? Their naked bodies may look aged, but we notice when they are fit. How did they do it? Yes, genetics helps, but discipline and state of mind matter more. Let's motivate healthier choices-- as tactfully as we can. Of course we wish to accept all. Let's welcome everyone. Let's also elicit better health. I'll ask again, am I wrong?
Sculptor, I understand your concerns about obesity and health, but the argument you're making is unrelated to the article and the points being discussed. It’s what they call a “straw man” argument. No one is advocating for unhealthy lifestyles. What we're addressing is the harmful impact of stigmatizing language and the exclusion of diverse body types in naturism and art.
Calling obesity a "plague" is damaging because it reduces individuals to their weight and overlooks the complex factors like genetics, environment, and socioeconomic status that influence body size. There are other ways of describing obesity as widespread without invoking The Black Death. The Oxford Dictionary defines “plague” thusly:
“noun: plague; noun: the plague; noun: pneumonic plague
1. a contagious bacterial disease characterized by fever and delirium, typically with the formation of buboes ( bubonic plague ) and sometimes infection of the lungs ( pneumonic plague ).
"an outbreak of plague"
2. a contagious disease that spreads rapidly and kills many people.
plural noun: plagues”
Seeing as obesity is 1. Not contagious, 2. Not bacterial, or characterized by fever or delirium, my answer is simply yes. You are wrong.
Encouraging health and fitness is important, but it should never come at the expense of body acceptance. Many people cannot achieve the "ideal" body due to factors beyond their control, including disability and genetics.
When people who struggle with weight see their bodies being judged harshly, it’s hurtful and demoralizing. This isn't about ignoring health risks associated with obesity; it’s about fostering a supportive environment where all bodies are valued. Large bodies can be healthy and beautiful. By promoting a more inclusive perspective, we can support better mental and physical health for everyone.
So yes, I believe you are wrong. Body acceptance and encouraging healthier choices can coexist without shaming those who don’t fit narrow ideals.
You don’t have to agree with me. I’m just answering your question.
In Brett's article he spoke of "certain body types that are deemed acceptable." He raised the issue. It is not a straw man argument. It was genuine. That was a major point of his review. Characterizing obesity as a "plague" may overstate it by your definition, although given the vast health consequences from obesity my use of therm pretty much hits the mark. So tell me then, it is not an epidemic? Are you dismissing the innumerable studies and reports on obesity in America as invalid? More to the point, are you making the case that as naturists we should avoid the topic?
The term you used was plague. The definition I offered is not mine, it’s the Oxford dictionary’s. We could address the definition of “epidemic” but if it still doesn’t fit your point, will the target move again? I prefer not to answer a questionnaire, nor continue a semantic back-and-forth so that you might find a position where you feel you’ve made your point. I think you have. Broadly, I don’t even disagree with you that our country has an obesity epidemic, though I see so many more factors at play than merely physical fitness or a lack of it—encompassing systemic problems from corporatized farming to advertising to children and beyond—and I’m certainly not suggesting the topic should be avoided. I just expect naturists to approach the topic with more compassion for different body types than those found in renaissance art.
It's sad that this is such a dated video. It hasn't aged well especially because it's only available on VHS. I do really like art nude videos though. Hegre art makes incredibly beautiful vids, although most are explicitly sexual.
As for body image issues. Is it offensive to say that some bodies are more beautiful than others?
I'm late to this article, but first of all, thank you for writing it and sharing about this movie.
With regard to diversity of images for nude art, the closest I see that gives me hope is women's intimate apparel brands, such as Knix and Knitty Knickers. (Hint: Google the brand names and then look at the images tab to see representation.) I think women have grown so tired of their bodies being objectified and, outside of nudity, intimate apparel shows usually the most of the body, so that's where stakes have been planted. And it needs to come from startups because we know that bigger organizations like VS are mostly run by men who will just tokenize issues for monetary reasons.
As for health: I'm on the side of health that reduces eating disorders, an issue that has one of the highest death rates associated with it. I'm on the side of health that supports mental health, which is entwined with self-image. I'm on the side of health that works to rid foods of microplastics and other foreign chemicals. I'm on the side of health that supports a fair economic situation for everyone so children and adults alike can afford to buy food that nurtures and supports them. I'm on the side of health that supports doctors and health care for all. That is where health starts. If you would like to equate health to body size, I invite you to go and tell that to your grandma's face and look forward to her clocking you on the side of the head with her big purse. 👜
Realistically, when could a more diverse movie be made? Now sounds like a good timeline to me.
I would not complain about the model type. For any artistic medium, the problem is finding the model[s]. One does not go on any street corner and inquire of passerbys whether they would be willing to pose for the artist. Realistically, the artist not only has difficulty finding the right model at the right price, but the artist’s market is a primary consideration if costs are going to be covered.
I love nude photography and dance. Please give us an unending river of lovliness.
You probably couldn't get many well known athletes or dancers to do this. Even if one were nude friendly themself, anyone in the public eye would worry about the PR effect. Even in 1983, your image had monetary value. OTOH, if you've already done nude work in the public realm or had no hopes of future celebrity, you'd have nothing to lose.
I don't mind the use of extremely fit models for this. It is like a study in physical anatomy. If you want to show how the muscles work, you gotta see the muscles. If you want grace in motion, you gotta have people athletic enough to give you grace in motion.
Brett, your review helps pinpoint a fundamental issue for me about naturism and nudity in art and culture. I saw/heard the movie too, dated though it now seems, it is beautifully done and aesthetically pleasing. You write "but I can’t help but think about how, when it comes to presenting nudism or nude art to the public, there are only certain body types that are deemed acceptable: specifically those of young, physically fit, able-bodied cis men and women." Of course, all of us who embrace naturism and social nudity welcome everyone. We want everyone to feel free in their skin. To feel comfortable in their nakedness with others who are also unclothed. But consider this: the movement also has deep roots in body conditioning and physical fitness. We often cite the earliest Olympics and the nudity of their athletic competition as an ideal. Today's naturism places emphasis on health and fitness. That a film like "Nudes in Limbo" features well-toned and younger bodies is not necessarily a negative. Art is a depiction of what we see and ideals for which we strive. Consider Michelangelo's masterpiece, "David." The larger than life statue depicts an idealized fully nude young adult male with a full head of hair. Should Michelangelo have instead created a sculpture of an obese bald man? Would we have regarded it as an ideal physique? There are many artists who have sculpted such figures. People like that exist too. I am not denigrating such a physique here. Nudists come in all shapes and sizes. But when we are at the nude beach, or the nude resort, don't we all admire more the people with buff bodies? They worked for that. They sweated for that. They labored for that. They had an objective and achieved a goal. We naturally admire that. When we see nudists who are decidedly flabby and overweight we still accept them. Yes. But one can't escape thinking that had they been less over-indulgent and more disciplined that their appearance would be more to their own liking? and to that of everyone else? It is also the case that overweight people are more likely to develop serious health conditions like diabetes and heart ailments. Their doctors tell them to cut out the fatty foods and get more exercise. How many of us have friends-- people we really like-- or family members we truly love-- who we know would improve their well-being and self-esteem by losing a few pounds here and a few pounds there? I for one believe that as a society we have gone too far in the direction of body acceptance of any and all types. Let's face it, obesity is a national plague and we ought to be more proactive in encouraging fitness and proper diet. Am I wrong?
Sculptor, I appreciate your perspective, and I can't speak for Brett as the writer of the above review, but I personally believe a couple of your points may be based on misconceptions. For one, Michelangelo’s "David" is a product of Renaissance ideals, reflecting the culture’s admiration for classical beauty and human potential. Art, including naturist films, reflects the values of its time. It's worth noting that art throughout history has celebrated diverse body types. For example, the Paleolithic Venus figurines highlight fuller, voluptuous bodies, celebrating fertility and nurturing aspects of humanity (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venus_figurine). For a deeper understanding of how body ideals have evolved in art, I cannot recommend this insightful video enough: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-AKudjxdbQw.
While promoting fitness is positive, it should not overshadow the inclusive spirit of naturism, which welcomes all body types. Real naturism fosters an environment where everyone feels accepted, regardless of their physique. I would argue that calling obesity a "plague" is damaging and harmful. This language stigmatizes individuals and overlooks the complex factors contributing to body weight such as genetics, environment, economic status, etc.. Encouraging health and fitness should never come at the expense of body acceptance. Many are overwright and perfectly healthy, and wondering why art so consistently reflects idealized and unattainable body types when there are so many other body types out there is hardly an endorsement of obesity. What about older bodies, bony bodies, disabled bodies, and others that you rarely see in art?
Regarding those we know who might feel happier if they lost a few pounds—who's to say? Many people with unconventional bodies, as naturists, feel that nothing about their bodies needs to change, but rather society's reaction to their bodies needs to change. Instead of assuming our loved ones would be happier if they were different, perhaps we should adopt an approach that accepts and loves their bodies as they are. Maybe, just maybe, that acceptance would truly make them happier.
Evan, fair points, excellent questions. The main assertion you make with which I take issue is that calling obesity a "plague" is damaging and harmful. But it is a plague. The plague itself is far more harmful than calling it in plain English for what it actually is. Ignoring it, or denying it, does a disservice to the people who suffer from it. There is a huge literature on this topic. Here for example is a report in 2023 from the National Health and Nutrition Examination Survey, "more than 2 in 5 adults are obese, and nearly 1 in 5 children are obese. Furthermore, 19 states in America have obesity rates over 35 percent, increased from 16 states just last year. A decade ago, no states had obesity rates above 35 percent! Obesity is linked to a number of health ailments, including diabetes, heart disease, stroke, and a number of cancers such as breast and colorectal. If that wasn’t enough, the annual medical cost of obesity was nearly 173 billion dollars in 2019 alone" (https://www.forbes.com/sites/omerawan/2023/01/25/has-the-obesity-epidemic-gotten-out-of-hand-in-america/). Check the CDC and Journal of the American Medical Association. The evidence is thoroughly documented. Obesity is an epidemic. What is especially distressing is the percentage of children who are afflicted. We are not doing them any favors by normalizing this. This is admittedly a delicate subject. Shaming people about their body type is not the point I am making. You ask about "bony bodies, disabled bodies, and others that you rarely see in art." They are out there and we often see heroism in their stories. People have overcome terrible illnesses and disabilities caused by no fault of their own. We applaud their courage when they get back up despite the odds against them. Baldness, for example, is clearly involuntary. Many bald men try a toupée (although we've all seen many handsome men who are bald). I am making the case about those things that are voluntary. Anything over which we have control is really at issue. Smoking is unhealthy. No argument. Alcohol abuse is unhealthy. No argument. Substance abuse, including food, is unhealthy. So I am making the case here that when it comes to voluntary behavior over which people have control, healthy choices should be encouraged and unhealthy choices discouraged. You say that "encouraging health and fitness should never come at the expense of body acceptance." Really? That is precisely the point. What motivates people to go the gym and really work out? They are not accepting their out-of-shape bodies. They want greater fitness and greater health. I am of the mind that naturists should focus less on some generic goal of body acceptance and something more akin to achieving fitness. How many of us who have been to nudist resorts, clothing optional events, and nude beaches have encountered people in their 70's, 80's and even 90's who look decades younger? Their naked bodies may look aged, but we notice when they are fit. How did they do it? Yes, genetics helps, but discipline and state of mind matter more. Let's motivate healthier choices-- as tactfully as we can. Of course we wish to accept all. Let's welcome everyone. Let's also elicit better health. I'll ask again, am I wrong?
Sculptor, I understand your concerns about obesity and health, but the argument you're making is unrelated to the article and the points being discussed. It’s what they call a “straw man” argument. No one is advocating for unhealthy lifestyles. What we're addressing is the harmful impact of stigmatizing language and the exclusion of diverse body types in naturism and art.
Calling obesity a "plague" is damaging because it reduces individuals to their weight and overlooks the complex factors like genetics, environment, and socioeconomic status that influence body size. There are other ways of describing obesity as widespread without invoking The Black Death. The Oxford Dictionary defines “plague” thusly:
“noun: plague; noun: the plague; noun: pneumonic plague
1. a contagious bacterial disease characterized by fever and delirium, typically with the formation of buboes ( bubonic plague ) and sometimes infection of the lungs ( pneumonic plague ).
"an outbreak of plague"
2. a contagious disease that spreads rapidly and kills many people.
plural noun: plagues”
Seeing as obesity is 1. Not contagious, 2. Not bacterial, or characterized by fever or delirium, my answer is simply yes. You are wrong.
Encouraging health and fitness is important, but it should never come at the expense of body acceptance. Many people cannot achieve the "ideal" body due to factors beyond their control, including disability and genetics.
When people who struggle with weight see their bodies being judged harshly, it’s hurtful and demoralizing. This isn't about ignoring health risks associated with obesity; it’s about fostering a supportive environment where all bodies are valued. Large bodies can be healthy and beautiful. By promoting a more inclusive perspective, we can support better mental and physical health for everyone.
So yes, I believe you are wrong. Body acceptance and encouraging healthier choices can coexist without shaming those who don’t fit narrow ideals.
You don’t have to agree with me. I’m just answering your question.
In Brett's article he spoke of "certain body types that are deemed acceptable." He raised the issue. It is not a straw man argument. It was genuine. That was a major point of his review. Characterizing obesity as a "plague" may overstate it by your definition, although given the vast health consequences from obesity my use of therm pretty much hits the mark. So tell me then, it is not an epidemic? Are you dismissing the innumerable studies and reports on obesity in America as invalid? More to the point, are you making the case that as naturists we should avoid the topic?
The term you used was plague. The definition I offered is not mine, it’s the Oxford dictionary’s. We could address the definition of “epidemic” but if it still doesn’t fit your point, will the target move again? I prefer not to answer a questionnaire, nor continue a semantic back-and-forth so that you might find a position where you feel you’ve made your point. I think you have. Broadly, I don’t even disagree with you that our country has an obesity epidemic, though I see so many more factors at play than merely physical fitness or a lack of it—encompassing systemic problems from corporatized farming to advertising to children and beyond—and I’m certainly not suggesting the topic should be avoided. I just expect naturists to approach the topic with more compassion for different body types than those found in renaissance art.
It's sad that this is such a dated video. It hasn't aged well especially because it's only available on VHS. I do really like art nude videos though. Hegre art makes incredibly beautiful vids, although most are explicitly sexual.
As for body image issues. Is it offensive to say that some bodies are more beautiful than others?
I'm late to this article, but first of all, thank you for writing it and sharing about this movie.
With regard to diversity of images for nude art, the closest I see that gives me hope is women's intimate apparel brands, such as Knix and Knitty Knickers. (Hint: Google the brand names and then look at the images tab to see representation.) I think women have grown so tired of their bodies being objectified and, outside of nudity, intimate apparel shows usually the most of the body, so that's where stakes have been planted. And it needs to come from startups because we know that bigger organizations like VS are mostly run by men who will just tokenize issues for monetary reasons.
As for health: I'm on the side of health that reduces eating disorders, an issue that has one of the highest death rates associated with it. I'm on the side of health that supports mental health, which is entwined with self-image. I'm on the side of health that works to rid foods of microplastics and other foreign chemicals. I'm on the side of health that supports a fair economic situation for everyone so children and adults alike can afford to buy food that nurtures and supports them. I'm on the side of health that supports doctors and health care for all. That is where health starts. If you would like to equate health to body size, I invite you to go and tell that to your grandma's face and look forward to her clocking you on the side of the head with her big purse. 👜
Realistically, when could a more diverse movie be made? Now sounds like a good timeline to me.