This is no surprise. When I did my History of Club Orient book, I was going to do it traditional print and I have a relationship with two large printing houses, got a quote for the largest printer in the United States, I think, (former owner of the MN Timberwolves), they took my $5000 deposit sent the full pdf file and got a call two weeks later, they could not print it and refunded the money (even though they were printing MAXIM at the time. The other printer was a non-starter.......I ended up getting it printed at a short run printer in Indiana who was half the price as the company that does the "AANR Bulletin." A large bible they printed 100 years ago adorns their waiting room and most of the workers are dressed in Brethren/ Mennonite garb.......they have also done my Nude County USA and through my aide are doing a TNS book upcoming. This is one of those "I could have told you deals." Back in the day, Nudist magazine printers had to build up their own printing capabilities to do things.......things moderated in the 70s-90s but it may almost be as bad today
I really don't understand this. Nobody holds the printer responsible for the content of the end product. They could simply ask to have their name kept out of the book. People attribute books to publishers and authors. I have never had any printer reject anything I have done in Canada and that includes brochures with nude children. Lots of smiles, chuckles, and jokes. One printer complained that some of their staff wouldn't work on it so they had to switch people around. But that's about it.
Maybe in Canada, all I can say down here in USA is "good luck to you." IMHO since the "me too" thing happened in the USA (do not know how widespread that happened up north), companies have been reticent to potential shaming, bad press, and have just said "no." Sort of an odd form of reverse censorship especially since the me too thing was a liberal creation, but it was picked up by the conservatives and both have largely ran with it and just been out of hand, also imho. Our nudist club look some serious shaming for putting up "nude pickleball" adverts on a bulletin board at a local health club and I kid you not, both of them were threatened for picketing from some of these trolls and, mostly we took heat because "there were children present." We stopped putting up these fliers, and the health club removed them. All US companies potentially are putting themselves at risk for promoting, taking business from, anything that could "trigger" or be considered objectionable from a client to any employee or other clients. This is an old problem. We did marketing (because no one else would do it) for Club Orient in our office in 2008. My HR person went NUTS when I brought it up and I was the boss! I asked four lawyers who also co-owned Club Orient and even in the absence of marketing, told me to NOT Do it! I can tell you the lengths I had to do, in brief for something that we did gratis, put it under a stand alone company, with one employee of mine as co-owner so she could never sue us for sexual harassment, (loop hole for owners) when I sent her down to Club Orient I had to have her sign a release, even thought there was no way I was going anywhere near that island when she was there. I had to put hazzard tape around our commercial printer at 4PM, had two sets of locks on that door. Had photos on a special lap top in our safe which only could be taken out at 4PM etc. It was crazy! When Club O sent me their old brochures with kids on them in an unmarked box and OMG my secretary opened the box (not the same woman who was doing marketing with me).....I had to send her for a two day review by a employment psychologist, spent a grand in legal fees to get a release...and she was not even offended! and then I ended up burning those brochures, just so no one would ever accidentally see them.....so I was not surprised a decade later by response of these two printers.....
Wow, that's insane! I was actually hoping for some backlash up here. I wouldn't even have minded some people picketing. But so far nothing. There was some children-naturism controversy last year generated by a Toronto non-landed club which ended up giving Bare Oaks some good publicity. Rebel News (a bit like Breitbart News in the USA) came up to do a surprise interview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLjxGg8S6gw
Yea, I can't remember their group's name and then it did not help that a neighboring club had an incident that led to an arrest and of course it was assumed to be us, two nudist clubs in the same county? ...they were calling our office every day, and not saying such good things. One of our office workers had to move on as they got to her.
Yeah, what Olaf said. Especially with the de minimis excemption ending, it's very difficult to get things shipped to the US in the first place, though a shipment of 1000 did not fall under that excemption in the first place, but is at greater risk of seizure as well.
Ukraine has some, er, logistical problems of its own, though produce and industrial goods going west are making it out of the country and have throughout most of the war IIRC.
Good or Bad, I know a few things although no one either believes me or listens to me....in this industry.....mostly due to having owned half a publishing company for a while and now my own (a worthy story of how my publisher of my first novel (2nd too) accidentally drove his company off a cliff and a week later a truck showed up at my office door full of my books with a release of my publishing rights is how it started...got interesting from there). Currently we do a historical society's books (because they were over spending and I was sick of them doing that and asking for donations) besides my own stuff and some other stuff, but here are some thoughts.....1) Most on demand organizations are going to take you to the cleaners 2) We have had some stuff done in Winnipeg and it was shipped down here. They did a fine job but that was pre tariffs and pre shipping which has got out of hand......3) Getting stuff printed in bulk and in color and perfect bound requires special equipment and hard to get a good price on them and some that will give you a price are farming it out so price is marked up. 4) A lot of book printing is done in China, also a lot of bad book printing is done in China, horrible, cheap glues, bad binding on hard covers.....got a lot of stories. 5) I will and have helped people on projects 6) You can get stuff done, but depends on how you want to get it done....too many people want and expect too much ......since I can just about get anything done and it done cheaply. I am doing a 200 pp book on the history of Burnett county (WI) residents in the Civil War right now.....got the file and have to lay it out for a proof copy.....but on nudist stuff I want to be careful and not overwhelm my printer and get them to kick me out.....doing 5 titles a year and extra printing here and there gives me some cred......
So they fell back on “corporate policy" that grows from and reinforces deep societal conditioning against simple nudity. Very sad. And in the end, maybe a bad business decision; they may have missed out on some great, er, exposure.
That said, I wonder if the ultimate reason for the refusal is that they were afraid of being charged with distributing child pornography or something. My guess - only a guess - was that it wasn't an attempt to be moral policemen, but fear that they would be charged with something, and it wasn't worth it to them to risk a legal battle over it. Whether the fear is warranted, who's to say? It's still a cowardly move and only reenforces the problem.
The whole thing is sad and ridiculous. It's tragic that we have gotten to this point. And absolutely scandalous, yet revealing, that the very people claiming to protect children can only see sex when they see an image - even an innocent cartoon image - of a clothes-free child. I have to think that at some point people will wake up to how overblown this is. But I don't know when that will be; it doesn't seem to be breaking anytime soon.
I would love to see a US based printer, although I did already order a couple copies from Bare Oaks! There will hopefully be a smaller firm somewhere that agrees to do it for you, and as you and Stéphane mentioned, this is exactly one of the reasons for the project!
I enjoy photography and printing my work, but most of it entails nude photos, so I decided to spend $1,500 to get my own professional setup at home to not have to worry about how to get it printed or who might be offended. (I bought the Canon Pro-1000, which is great for prints, but not for a coloring book like this). It would be an interesting survey question to see who prints their own naturist photos and what services they use.
Good info. With all the changes in printing technology and smaller printing equipment I've seen comments about on demand printers who can produce books, magazines, newsletters, etc. I use to print a professional quality newsletter for a major company through a company now owned by Federal Express. I keep hoping some naturist organization will get involved in printing that could help the whole community.
Unbelieveable! The printers cannot stand the thought that children might actually benefit from seeing all ages and types of naked human bodies, but I guarantee they (like here in New Zealand) are all too willing and eager to print books for kids 5 years old and up that ask them to think about what sex they are - a boy? A girl? Both? Or neither? Or something else altogether? And then give plenty of advice on how to go about "changing your sex" if you don't feel quite right in the body you have. Stupidity has no bounds!
This is no surprise. When I did my History of Club Orient book, I was going to do it traditional print and I have a relationship with two large printing houses, got a quote for the largest printer in the United States, I think, (former owner of the MN Timberwolves), they took my $5000 deposit sent the full pdf file and got a call two weeks later, they could not print it and refunded the money (even though they were printing MAXIM at the time. The other printer was a non-starter.......I ended up getting it printed at a short run printer in Indiana who was half the price as the company that does the "AANR Bulletin." A large bible they printed 100 years ago adorns their waiting room and most of the workers are dressed in Brethren/ Mennonite garb.......they have also done my Nude County USA and through my aide are doing a TNS book upcoming. This is one of those "I could have told you deals." Back in the day, Nudist magazine printers had to build up their own printing capabilities to do things.......things moderated in the 70s-90s but it may almost be as bad today
I really don't understand this. Nobody holds the printer responsible for the content of the end product. They could simply ask to have their name kept out of the book. People attribute books to publishers and authors. I have never had any printer reject anything I have done in Canada and that includes brochures with nude children. Lots of smiles, chuckles, and jokes. One printer complained that some of their staff wouldn't work on it so they had to switch people around. But that's about it.
Maybe in Canada, all I can say down here in USA is "good luck to you." IMHO since the "me too" thing happened in the USA (do not know how widespread that happened up north), companies have been reticent to potential shaming, bad press, and have just said "no." Sort of an odd form of reverse censorship especially since the me too thing was a liberal creation, but it was picked up by the conservatives and both have largely ran with it and just been out of hand, also imho. Our nudist club look some serious shaming for putting up "nude pickleball" adverts on a bulletin board at a local health club and I kid you not, both of them were threatened for picketing from some of these trolls and, mostly we took heat because "there were children present." We stopped putting up these fliers, and the health club removed them. All US companies potentially are putting themselves at risk for promoting, taking business from, anything that could "trigger" or be considered objectionable from a client to any employee or other clients. This is an old problem. We did marketing (because no one else would do it) for Club Orient in our office in 2008. My HR person went NUTS when I brought it up and I was the boss! I asked four lawyers who also co-owned Club Orient and even in the absence of marketing, told me to NOT Do it! I can tell you the lengths I had to do, in brief for something that we did gratis, put it under a stand alone company, with one employee of mine as co-owner so she could never sue us for sexual harassment, (loop hole for owners) when I sent her down to Club Orient I had to have her sign a release, even thought there was no way I was going anywhere near that island when she was there. I had to put hazzard tape around our commercial printer at 4PM, had two sets of locks on that door. Had photos on a special lap top in our safe which only could be taken out at 4PM etc. It was crazy! When Club O sent me their old brochures with kids on them in an unmarked box and OMG my secretary opened the box (not the same woman who was doing marketing with me).....I had to send her for a two day review by a employment psychologist, spent a grand in legal fees to get a release...and she was not even offended! and then I ended up burning those brochures, just so no one would ever accidentally see them.....so I was not surprised a decade later by response of these two printers.....
Wow, that's insane! I was actually hoping for some backlash up here. I wouldn't even have minded some people picketing. But so far nothing. There was some children-naturism controversy last year generated by a Toronto non-landed club which ended up giving Bare Oaks some good publicity. Rebel News (a bit like Breitbart News in the USA) came up to do a surprise interview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLjxGg8S6gw
Yea, I can't remember their group's name and then it did not help that a neighboring club had an incident that led to an arrest and of course it was assumed to be us, two nudist clubs in the same county? ...they were calling our office every day, and not saying such good things. One of our office workers had to move on as they got to her.
Look for a printer in France, Netherlands, Ukraine, Scandinavia.
two words....tariffs and shipping
Yeah, what Olaf said. Especially with the de minimis excemption ending, it's very difficult to get things shipped to the US in the first place, though a shipment of 1000 did not fall under that excemption in the first place, but is at greater risk of seizure as well.
Ukraine has some, er, logistical problems of its own, though produce and industrial goods going west are making it out of the country and have throughout most of the war IIRC.
Good or Bad, I know a few things although no one either believes me or listens to me....in this industry.....mostly due to having owned half a publishing company for a while and now my own (a worthy story of how my publisher of my first novel (2nd too) accidentally drove his company off a cliff and a week later a truck showed up at my office door full of my books with a release of my publishing rights is how it started...got interesting from there). Currently we do a historical society's books (because they were over spending and I was sick of them doing that and asking for donations) besides my own stuff and some other stuff, but here are some thoughts.....1) Most on demand organizations are going to take you to the cleaners 2) We have had some stuff done in Winnipeg and it was shipped down here. They did a fine job but that was pre tariffs and pre shipping which has got out of hand......3) Getting stuff printed in bulk and in color and perfect bound requires special equipment and hard to get a good price on them and some that will give you a price are farming it out so price is marked up. 4) A lot of book printing is done in China, also a lot of bad book printing is done in China, horrible, cheap glues, bad binding on hard covers.....got a lot of stories. 5) I will and have helped people on projects 6) You can get stuff done, but depends on how you want to get it done....too many people want and expect too much ......since I can just about get anything done and it done cheaply. I am doing a 200 pp book on the history of Burnett county (WI) residents in the Civil War right now.....got the file and have to lay it out for a proof copy.....but on nudist stuff I want to be careful and not overwhelm my printer and get them to kick me out.....doing 5 titles a year and extra printing here and there gives me some cred......
So they fell back on “corporate policy" that grows from and reinforces deep societal conditioning against simple nudity. Very sad. And in the end, maybe a bad business decision; they may have missed out on some great, er, exposure.
Patently absurd.
That said, I wonder if the ultimate reason for the refusal is that they were afraid of being charged with distributing child pornography or something. My guess - only a guess - was that it wasn't an attempt to be moral policemen, but fear that they would be charged with something, and it wasn't worth it to them to risk a legal battle over it. Whether the fear is warranted, who's to say? It's still a cowardly move and only reenforces the problem.
The whole thing is sad and ridiculous. It's tragic that we have gotten to this point. And absolutely scandalous, yet revealing, that the very people claiming to protect children can only see sex when they see an image - even an innocent cartoon image - of a clothes-free child. I have to think that at some point people will wake up to how overblown this is. But I don't know when that will be; it doesn't seem to be breaking anytime soon.
I would love to see a US based printer, although I did already order a couple copies from Bare Oaks! There will hopefully be a smaller firm somewhere that agrees to do it for you, and as you and Stéphane mentioned, this is exactly one of the reasons for the project!
I enjoy photography and printing my work, but most of it entails nude photos, so I decided to spend $1,500 to get my own professional setup at home to not have to worry about how to get it printed or who might be offended. (I bought the Canon Pro-1000, which is great for prints, but not for a coloring book like this). It would be an interesting survey question to see who prints their own naturist photos and what services they use.
Good info. With all the changes in printing technology and smaller printing equipment I've seen comments about on demand printers who can produce books, magazines, newsletters, etc. I use to print a professional quality newsletter for a major company through a company now owned by Federal Express. I keep hoping some naturist organization will get involved in printing that could help the whole community.
Unbelieveable! The printers cannot stand the thought that children might actually benefit from seeing all ages and types of naked human bodies, but I guarantee they (like here in New Zealand) are all too willing and eager to print books for kids 5 years old and up that ask them to think about what sex they are - a boy? A girl? Both? Or neither? Or something else altogether? And then give plenty of advice on how to go about "changing your sex" if you don't feel quite right in the body you have. Stupidity has no bounds!