Most of society's unspoken assumption is that just being naked is some sort of sexual activity. Parents, religious and secular leaders, and incalculable imagery from movies, magazines and websites have conditioned most people to think that way from a very young age. There's no logic to it; all the logic, reasoning and lived experience is on our side! But we must address this false conditioned belief if we are to have any success in defending our clothes-freedom.
We’ve ran into so many people that have families that say they do not include their children. The parents usually say something like they don’t want to deal with the headache if their kids say something and I just feel that’s incredibly sad for the kids they don’t get to be raised in this way of life we all know and love, but also when the parents say that it seems to send the wrong message. If you hide something, the connotation is that it’s worthy of hiding and that sends a mixed message that simple nudity needs to be hushed and hidden.
Even in our own naked adventures when people start asking us questions and when we say, “yeah there’s kids there” that’s all a few people need to recoil and say that’s horrible. We have to reply with, “what? Kids go places with their parents.”
Yes social nudity is a taboo, but people get over that, but when children aren’t included it becomes glaringly obvious they aren’t part of the mix. Even in textile society we seem to have this pedo panic that in so many situations that wouldn’t illicit a reaction now seem to raise eyebrows.
I can only assume it’s the individualization of America to the point that we no longer have communities and simply assume everyone outside our door is out to get us one way or any other instead of just being the person down the street living their life.
I recently went to Playa Zipolite in Mexico, which is famously known for nude recreation. On the beach, there were many naked bodies, and also many families with multiple children. Although the families were typically all clothed, none of them seemed disturbed by the presence of nude beachgoers.
As someone from the United States, it was surprising to see how safe these parents not engaging in nudism felt about their children in this environment. In the U.S. I would expect to see non-naturist parents keeping their children on a very short leash in similar circumstances. I think that problems with family naturism, or even exposing children to the concept of nudity, is a problem that has a certain uniqueness in the mind of people in the U.S. because of our sense of moral panic regarding the safety of children.
There's a lot of nuanced reasons for this, but the main reasons I think our particular moral panic is unique are because the media we consume generates fear and distrust, and "protecting the children" has developed into a political animus that has a tendency to sublimate non-mainstream lifestyles into a combined phantasmic enemy. The result being equating naturism with pedophilia.
I think Gunnison Beach in New Jersey is an excellent example of this. It's been a while since I've gone, but for several years when I was younger, I went a couple of times a year. There were always families with kids there, but always on the nude side. For those that are not familiar with Gunnison Beach, it is split roughly in half from where you enter from the parking lot, with a sign indicating that to the left of the sign clothing is required and to the right is clothing-optional. (And there were always MANY more people on the nude side than on the textile side.) On the nude side, sometimes the whole family would be nude, sometimes the parents would be nude and the kids wearing bathing suits, or vice versa. But there were rarely kids on the textile side. Since there were certainly people with children on the textile side, one can only assume that they didn't bring their kids with them because they didn't want to expose them to the nudity, even though they could clearly see that it was safe, even for the naked kids playing just on the other side of the sign.
There is no longer a textile side. There is a barrier on each side of Gunnison where people are not allowed to go past. The barriers are there to protect the piping plovers. The other good news is that the fabric walkway has been extended most of the way to the ocean.
I don't see too many kids there, however. Some, but not many.
My answer was in a lower percentile. I understand what people are thinking, that the Moral Panic and Taboos are the biggest challenges. But the reason I believe the bigger challenge is "Low Awareness" is that I STRONGLY believe our biggest challenge is education. A HUGE number of people believe that children will be damaged mentally by seeing public nudity, especially nudity of adults. A HUGE number of people believe children are more likely to be taken advantage of by a pedophiliac at a naturist resort. A HUGE number of people think the bible teaches even simple non-sexual public nudity is a sin. (Spoiler alert: It doesn't.) A HUGE number of people think naturist clubs are places where people go to have sex. OUR BIGGEST CHALLENGE is education. We need to do everything we can to educate people on the true facts. We need to be armed with studies and statistics showing these concerns of theirs are not true. We also need more of these studies to show it is still relevant. We need public media to stop denigrating us by making backhanded jokes about our lifestyle. They could never get away with that when it comes to the LGBTQ population. Why is it OK to do that to us? Our voices need to be heard.
You are talking about Trump, not the mainstream media. I believe most of mainstream media treats the LGBTQ much better than they do the Naturist community.
Ironically, I think moral panic would stand in the way of educating people about family naturism. Just look at legislation in the southern United States aimed at restricting topics of gender and sexuality for minors in schools. The people voting for and writing this legislation do not seem to be educated on or curious about the topics they are restricting, and there's little evidence it's being taught in the way they claim.
I'm not sure you could get through to people like that with even the best studies and statistics. Their concerns about sexual predators or grooming of children will make your attempts to educate them fall on deaf ears.
You're not wrong, of course. I voted Moral Panic, but I think that and Low Awareness are really two sides of the same coin. A chicken-and-egg relationship, perhaps. The lack of true understanding leads to moral panic, which blocks any openness to a new understanding. It is a very tricky circle to break into, and I find that breaking into it happens best on a one-to-one basis. It's hard to make progress that way, but easier the more we actively work at it, and hardest when we don't do anything at all besides complain.
Any ideas for an effective education campaign to reach a large number of people?
Completely agree. And I sure wish I had some good ideas for an effective education campaign. I do believe there needs to be a "meeting of the minds" to come up with strategies to put in place to try to make this way of living less on the fringe and more mainstream.
Kids are going to see nudity regardless, even if they have to peek through through a knothole like me at summer camp years ago. Family group and secure private and/or public area seems reasonable approach to body awareness and educational.
You didn't get how she could be a naturist and also conservative Christian? I'm trying to understand why. I have done extensive study on this topic, and have come to the conclusion that the Bible does NOT condemn non-s€xual social nudity. would be willing to share some of what I've learned with you if you like.
That view points Boys always Curious at girls body . That mean not lust parents teaching children their beautiful body They learn respect and mostly important might help should not rape , Molester , Underage girls got pregnant
For decades, nudists differentiated themselves from sleaze by pointing out that our activities were pure enough for the whole family to attend. But now, busybodies are trying to turn our strength into a liability.
They began with a panic about the rare crime of pedophilia. All those bothersome Amber alerts? They usually mean that the child is perfectly safe with the other parent.
Then came a panic of confusing innocent child nudity with pornography. (If nobody is doing anything sexual, it's not pornography.) That was enough to scare off most movie-makers. Now the book-banners are having great fun with this one, purging school and public libraries.
The latest panic is about children actually seeing what they can expect to look like as adults. This one is aimed specifically at nudist clubs and beaches.
When an AANR executive director suggested that we avoid controversy by banning children, he was fired on the spot--and rightly so. The only way to fight panic is with calm sanity. Do not run from an attacking dog, or any other animal. Face it with quiet confidence.
We must continue to speak and write about the natural nudity of children--and welcome them into our clubs, even if they do make noise. They are our future. For far too long, nudist leaders have been content to watch teenagers drop out, hoping they would return ten years later with children of their own. But with people marrying later, this is proving to be a membership-losing strategy. Youth camps that challenge the growing abilities of teenagers are one good plan. Providing activities for all ages is another.
Far from listening to the popular brouhaha, we must turn our supposed vulnerability back into the strength that it always has been.
The 1967 movie Pussycat Paradise is about a somewhat prudish young lady who inherits a nudist camp. She wants to shut it down but is persuaded by its members to give the place a look and determine whether it should be closed. The movie is a British production and provides a stark contrast between what we as Americans consider taboo and the wholesome view of the British by including unhindered views of young children in the movie. It was done in what I would consider a beautiful and wholesome manner, one I wish I could have experienced as a young person myself. I believe it is imperative to include children at an early age if you are truly fateful to this sort of lifestyle. There should be no guilt or embarrassment in creating a wholesome family practice.
We Live in A Complicated and Difficult World, no doubt. We are immersed in A Non - stop continuous battle called " LIFE ". and SURVIVAL. We come into this world with very little. At this stage of the game, basically nothing about ourselves has been determined. Our D.N.A. and Overall Genetics is the nucleus of the very core of our being.
For over 20 years, I have offered starting at $2,000 and now $10,000 to anyone who can write an intelligent 500 word essay telling "What harm would befall a child who sees a nude adult?"
To date, I have received zero submissions. Repeat. Zero submissions.
Does this mean that this essay cannot be rationally written? Does this mean that those claiming some child protection high ground are really nudephobic nut cases?
This writing contest is still open. Submit to george123570@yahoo.com. My inbox is open 24/7. I'm still waiting.
The best policy I can think of and use is practicing nudity at home and in the yard. Not make a big deal about it and just going about your normal daily activities. getting out of the shower and walking around instead of hiding. I and my wife (occasionally) practice it while swimming and using the hot tub and as I said getting out of the shower. My teenage son thinks nothing of walking out of the shower and going into the kitchen for a snack of the living room to watch TV. We don't make a big deal about it.
With the pool we have had nudist friends over and my son has joined us both clothed and nude in the pool, but most rimes wants to play video games with his friends. We just let him do what he wants. One time he said he felt awkward while swimming cause he was clothed and we were nude. He joined us for a bit, but then went in to play.
I'm lucky, only 2 story home in the middle of a village most are ranch style. Have a 6 foot privacy fence. So neighbors have to climb a ladder or be very tall.
There is an issue no one is talking about. And that is how you socialize nudist children once they are in the nudist environment. I've seen too many kids lonely because there is no one to play with, or families keep missing one another because they attend events on alternate months. I've seen one kid ending up at the wrong party. And because kids will be kids, alienation will still happen--there's always the one boy or girl who just isn't getting along with the crowd. Churches have youth groups to bring children together, but naturist organizations need to encourage more of that. Otherwise, you'll always have kids complaining, "There's nothing to do here." Or worse, they start perpetuating the stereotype that naturists are for the old crowd, because they didn't have teenagers or college students to be their big brothers and sisters.
When it comes to 'how to talk' in order to change things, it's important to understand that most people don't change their minds based on facts, evidence or statistics, at least not permanently. They might tell you that your arguments sound persuasive but a good night's sleep or a conversation with someone who holds their previous position may serve as a reset button and they come out of that as if they've never listened to a word you said.
What you need is vibes. Positive stories, don't lead with denying bad things. Show the wholesomeness and tap into people's own good memories. I've been doing my bit with my comics, I think, in creating a positive vibe.
In my experience, most people don't pay any attention to any evidence that is contrary to what they believe already. If you ask them what you just said, they wouldn't have the slightest idea, or they would say what they expected you to say, not what you actually said. This willful blindness affects attitudes on topics much more serious than nudism as well, resulting in violence and other evils.
Most of society's unspoken assumption is that just being naked is some sort of sexual activity. Parents, religious and secular leaders, and incalculable imagery from movies, magazines and websites have conditioned most people to think that way from a very young age. There's no logic to it; all the logic, reasoning and lived experience is on our side! But we must address this false conditioned belief if we are to have any success in defending our clothes-freedom.
love the introductory photo.
We’ve ran into so many people that have families that say they do not include their children. The parents usually say something like they don’t want to deal with the headache if their kids say something and I just feel that’s incredibly sad for the kids they don’t get to be raised in this way of life we all know and love, but also when the parents say that it seems to send the wrong message. If you hide something, the connotation is that it’s worthy of hiding and that sends a mixed message that simple nudity needs to be hushed and hidden.
Even in our own naked adventures when people start asking us questions and when we say, “yeah there’s kids there” that’s all a few people need to recoil and say that’s horrible. We have to reply with, “what? Kids go places with their parents.”
Yes social nudity is a taboo, but people get over that, but when children aren’t included it becomes glaringly obvious they aren’t part of the mix. Even in textile society we seem to have this pedo panic that in so many situations that wouldn’t illicit a reaction now seem to raise eyebrows.
I can only assume it’s the individualization of America to the point that we no longer have communities and simply assume everyone outside our door is out to get us one way or any other instead of just being the person down the street living their life.
I recently went to Playa Zipolite in Mexico, which is famously known for nude recreation. On the beach, there were many naked bodies, and also many families with multiple children. Although the families were typically all clothed, none of them seemed disturbed by the presence of nude beachgoers.
As someone from the United States, it was surprising to see how safe these parents not engaging in nudism felt about their children in this environment. In the U.S. I would expect to see non-naturist parents keeping their children on a very short leash in similar circumstances. I think that problems with family naturism, or even exposing children to the concept of nudity, is a problem that has a certain uniqueness in the mind of people in the U.S. because of our sense of moral panic regarding the safety of children.
There's a lot of nuanced reasons for this, but the main reasons I think our particular moral panic is unique are because the media we consume generates fear and distrust, and "protecting the children" has developed into a political animus that has a tendency to sublimate non-mainstream lifestyles into a combined phantasmic enemy. The result being equating naturism with pedophilia.
I think Gunnison Beach in New Jersey is an excellent example of this. It's been a while since I've gone, but for several years when I was younger, I went a couple of times a year. There were always families with kids there, but always on the nude side. For those that are not familiar with Gunnison Beach, it is split roughly in half from where you enter from the parking lot, with a sign indicating that to the left of the sign clothing is required and to the right is clothing-optional. (And there were always MANY more people on the nude side than on the textile side.) On the nude side, sometimes the whole family would be nude, sometimes the parents would be nude and the kids wearing bathing suits, or vice versa. But there were rarely kids on the textile side. Since there were certainly people with children on the textile side, one can only assume that they didn't bring their kids with them because they didn't want to expose them to the nudity, even though they could clearly see that it was safe, even for the naked kids playing just on the other side of the sign.
Thanks for sharing that observation.
There is no longer a textile side. There is a barrier on each side of Gunnison where people are not allowed to go past. The barriers are there to protect the piping plovers. The other good news is that the fabric walkway has been extended most of the way to the ocean.
I don't see too many kids there, however. Some, but not many.
My answer was in a lower percentile. I understand what people are thinking, that the Moral Panic and Taboos are the biggest challenges. But the reason I believe the bigger challenge is "Low Awareness" is that I STRONGLY believe our biggest challenge is education. A HUGE number of people believe that children will be damaged mentally by seeing public nudity, especially nudity of adults. A HUGE number of people believe children are more likely to be taken advantage of by a pedophiliac at a naturist resort. A HUGE number of people think the bible teaches even simple non-sexual public nudity is a sin. (Spoiler alert: It doesn't.) A HUGE number of people think naturist clubs are places where people go to have sex. OUR BIGGEST CHALLENGE is education. We need to do everything we can to educate people on the true facts. We need to be armed with studies and statistics showing these concerns of theirs are not true. We also need more of these studies to show it is still relevant. We need public media to stop denigrating us by making backhanded jokes about our lifestyle. They could never get away with that when it comes to the LGBTQ population. Why is it OK to do that to us? Our voices need to be heard.
You are talking about Trump, not the mainstream media. I believe most of mainstream media treats the LGBTQ much better than they do the Naturist community.
Ironically, I think moral panic would stand in the way of educating people about family naturism. Just look at legislation in the southern United States aimed at restricting topics of gender and sexuality for minors in schools. The people voting for and writing this legislation do not seem to be educated on or curious about the topics they are restricting, and there's little evidence it's being taught in the way they claim.
I'm not sure you could get through to people like that with even the best studies and statistics. Their concerns about sexual predators or grooming of children will make your attempts to educate them fall on deaf ears.
Maybe make nudity not such a big deal and educate their kids about the predators and groomers.
You're not wrong, of course. I voted Moral Panic, but I think that and Low Awareness are really two sides of the same coin. A chicken-and-egg relationship, perhaps. The lack of true understanding leads to moral panic, which blocks any openness to a new understanding. It is a very tricky circle to break into, and I find that breaking into it happens best on a one-to-one basis. It's hard to make progress that way, but easier the more we actively work at it, and hardest when we don't do anything at all besides complain.
Any ideas for an effective education campaign to reach a large number of people?
Completely agree. And I sure wish I had some good ideas for an effective education campaign. I do believe there needs to be a "meeting of the minds" to come up with strategies to put in place to try to make this way of living less on the fringe and more mainstream.
Kids are going to see nudity regardless, even if they have to peek through through a knothole like me at summer camp years ago. Family group and secure private and/or public area seems reasonable approach to body awareness and educational.
My wife and I met a couple at the local nudist campground. I heard the wife tell people she was a conservative Christian. I really don't get it.
You didn't get how she could be a naturist and also conservative Christian? I'm trying to understand why. I have done extensive study on this topic, and have come to the conclusion that the Bible does NOT condemn non-s€xual social nudity. would be willing to share some of what I've learned with you if you like.
That view points Boys always Curious at girls body . That mean not lust parents teaching children their beautiful body They learn respect and mostly important might help should not rape , Molester , Underage girls got pregnant
More curious if they never see the other sex except in a sneaky way?
For decades, nudists differentiated themselves from sleaze by pointing out that our activities were pure enough for the whole family to attend. But now, busybodies are trying to turn our strength into a liability.
They began with a panic about the rare crime of pedophilia. All those bothersome Amber alerts? They usually mean that the child is perfectly safe with the other parent.
Then came a panic of confusing innocent child nudity with pornography. (If nobody is doing anything sexual, it's not pornography.) That was enough to scare off most movie-makers. Now the book-banners are having great fun with this one, purging school and public libraries.
The latest panic is about children actually seeing what they can expect to look like as adults. This one is aimed specifically at nudist clubs and beaches.
When an AANR executive director suggested that we avoid controversy by banning children, he was fired on the spot--and rightly so. The only way to fight panic is with calm sanity. Do not run from an attacking dog, or any other animal. Face it with quiet confidence.
We must continue to speak and write about the natural nudity of children--and welcome them into our clubs, even if they do make noise. They are our future. For far too long, nudist leaders have been content to watch teenagers drop out, hoping they would return ten years later with children of their own. But with people marrying later, this is proving to be a membership-losing strategy. Youth camps that challenge the growing abilities of teenagers are one good plan. Providing activities for all ages is another.
Far from listening to the popular brouhaha, we must turn our supposed vulnerability back into the strength that it always has been.
The 1967 movie Pussycat Paradise is about a somewhat prudish young lady who inherits a nudist camp. She wants to shut it down but is persuaded by its members to give the place a look and determine whether it should be closed. The movie is a British production and provides a stark contrast between what we as Americans consider taboo and the wholesome view of the British by including unhindered views of young children in the movie. It was done in what I would consider a beautiful and wholesome manner, one I wish I could have experienced as a young person myself. I believe it is imperative to include children at an early age if you are truly fateful to this sort of lifestyle. There should be no guilt or embarrassment in creating a wholesome family practice.
We Live in A Complicated and Difficult World, no doubt. We are immersed in A Non - stop continuous battle called " LIFE ". and SURVIVAL. We come into this world with very little. At this stage of the game, basically nothing about ourselves has been determined. Our D.N.A. and Overall Genetics is the nucleus of the very core of our being.
I'm a perfectionist. This causes complete Exhaustion. I Have much more to say about this topic.
For over 20 years, I have offered starting at $2,000 and now $10,000 to anyone who can write an intelligent 500 word essay telling "What harm would befall a child who sees a nude adult?"
To date, I have received zero submissions. Repeat. Zero submissions.
Does this mean that this essay cannot be rationally written? Does this mean that those claiming some child protection high ground are really nudephobic nut cases?
This writing contest is still open. Submit to george123570@yahoo.com. My inbox is open 24/7. I'm still waiting.
The subject would make an interesting study but probably difficult to gather meaningful data.
The best policy I can think of and use is practicing nudity at home and in the yard. Not make a big deal about it and just going about your normal daily activities. getting out of the shower and walking around instead of hiding. I and my wife (occasionally) practice it while swimming and using the hot tub and as I said getting out of the shower. My teenage son thinks nothing of walking out of the shower and going into the kitchen for a snack of the living room to watch TV. We don't make a big deal about it.
With the pool we have had nudist friends over and my son has joined us both clothed and nude in the pool, but most rimes wants to play video games with his friends. We just let him do what he wants. One time he said he felt awkward while swimming cause he was clothed and we were nude. He joined us for a bit, but then went in to play.
Both parents need to participate openly and not censor any of their kids!
Very true
I wish I had a house where I could be nude anywhere outside. There aren't many where I live.
I'm lucky, only 2 story home in the middle of a village most are ranch style. Have a 6 foot privacy fence. So neighbors have to climb a ladder or be very tall.
There is an issue no one is talking about. And that is how you socialize nudist children once they are in the nudist environment. I've seen too many kids lonely because there is no one to play with, or families keep missing one another because they attend events on alternate months. I've seen one kid ending up at the wrong party. And because kids will be kids, alienation will still happen--there's always the one boy or girl who just isn't getting along with the crowd. Churches have youth groups to bring children together, but naturist organizations need to encourage more of that. Otherwise, you'll always have kids complaining, "There's nothing to do here." Or worse, they start perpetuating the stereotype that naturists are for the old crowd, because they didn't have teenagers or college students to be their big brothers and sisters.
When it comes to 'how to talk' in order to change things, it's important to understand that most people don't change their minds based on facts, evidence or statistics, at least not permanently. They might tell you that your arguments sound persuasive but a good night's sleep or a conversation with someone who holds their previous position may serve as a reset button and they come out of that as if they've never listened to a word you said.
What you need is vibes. Positive stories, don't lead with denying bad things. Show the wholesomeness and tap into people's own good memories. I've been doing my bit with my comics, I think, in creating a positive vibe.
In my experience, most people don't pay any attention to any evidence that is contrary to what they believe already. If you ask them what you just said, they wouldn't have the slightest idea, or they would say what they expected you to say, not what you actually said. This willful blindness affects attitudes on topics much more serious than nudism as well, resulting in violence and other evils.
I'm quite honestly so very tired of writing comments. I'm feeling that my perceptions and observations are going Unnoticed.
I don't see how your comments tie into the topic of discussion. Why don't you write something longer so we can get a complete idea of your points?
Som